Interview – Robert Hickman (Pure Ocarinas)
Originally published on The Ocarina Repository by Cambell Baxter, circa October 2013. That site is no longer online; this copy is preserved here from the Internet Archive.
I’ve been sitting on this one for a while, so I’m not going to hold onto it any longer! Here’s the latest interview for your reading pleasure:
Robert Hickman!
- Tell us about yourself!
Well my name is Robert Hickman and I live in Chepstow in the UK, on the border of England and Wales. I started playing the ocarina rather on a whim, having seen several videos on Youtube and loving the unusual sound. As I had tried other instruments beforehand and didn’t get anywhere with them, I was rather expecting the same outcome, but the gods conspired for this to be different.
I aim to play in public regularly, which always attracts notice and questions from the crowd. As a means of progressing this I also joined the local Border Morris group, The Widders, who tour around festivals and events. Naturally it didn’t take long before I got roped into dancing as well, which I was surprised to find I enjoy.
I want to see the ocarina become a respected instrument in the UK. From my experiences of playing in public it certainly arouses people’s curiosity.
- When/why did you start making ocarinas?
When I started playing the ocarina and got the hang of it, naturally it didn’t take long before I wanted to try out other ocarinas in different keys. However I was cautious of importing high value ceramic items. As I’ve been making things since the age of 5 or so, ‘make one’ wasn’t a huge leap. How hard can it be? As it turned out, there is a lot more to this ‘lump of ceramic with holes’ than is immediately obvious. In many ways that’s the attraction I find in making things, doing so forces you below the surface and you learn a lot more in the process.
- What advice would you give to new makers, or those thinking about making Ocarinas?
The biggest lesson from making for so long is to accept that your first work is going to suck. No question about it. With this in mind it’s important to not get discouraged early on and keep trying. Learning to make any instrument takes a great deal of practice, the ocarina is no exception.
Secondly, is this something you want to put years of your life into? While they appear simple at a glance there are many fine points to these instruments and developing your work to a commercial standard will take a great deal of time. There’s the voicing and tone, getting the chamber right for the pitch. Then add the challenge of tuning, something which requires godlike breath control.
If you still want to do this, lay down the cash and go to the ocarina festival. Go see the historic ocarinas in the museum in Budrio. If at all possible get them out of the cases, study and play them. For me, seeing these ocarinas with Kresimir, and his knowledge was a real turning point in my own development as a maker.
- What are some mistakes that new makers make?
The one mistake I see frequently in new makers’ work – one which nearly led me to give up – is not understanding the materials properties. All tutorials failed to mention that the working properties of clay change during drying. Doing too much when the clay is wet leads to cave-ins and labium/wind way disintegration. It is much easier to do a lot of things if the clay is simply left to dry to leather hard.
A second mistake is the use of ice lolly (popsicle) sticks for the slot stick. These are far from ideal as in their default form they are much too thick, leading to a lack of air focus and poor sound. Even if you go to the effort to sand them down they still don’t work well. They are made of cheap, loose grained wood which grabs the clay. This makes the stick hard to remove and subsequently leaves the wind way with a poor finish.
Metal is my preferred material for slot sticks as it does not grab the clay at all. I like brass as it’s easy to machine and won’t rust, but you do need access to a milling machine to work it. Bamboo is another alternative as it has a very linear grain, and it does improve with use.
The last points are poor wind way/labium alignment and incorrect ramp angle. An incorrectly aligned labium may produce sound on the low end but the high notes will be weak or absent entirely. It’s best to form the labium by aiming the wind way at a flat wall to start with then forming the labium by undercutting and over cutting. Placing it to direct about 25% of the air into the chamber. The exact placement is something you should experiment with.
Secondly, poor ramp angle. In order for the high notes to sound clearly the air must be able to pass over the sound hole creating its syphon and escape easily. Having a steep ramp right in the air stream is counterproductive to this.
- If you had the opportunity to start again, is there anything you would do differently, knowing what you know now?
Yes, although most have little to do with the ocarina. My inexperience with social situations and the general issue of being ‘young and naive’ led to my making a lot of mistakes, things which I’ve learned a lot from and would rather put behind me.
Something that I will say is that it’s not a good idea to try and rush things to completion, as it will only make things take longer.
Another would be not running away from things because you find them intimidating. For example not putting off making a mold for so long. Mold making looked complicated and I was intimidated by it. That resulted in staying with the cut/hollow method for a long time and held myself back. Now I will make a mold even if I know it will only be used once, they just make things that much easier.
- What do you recommend to new makers on a budget?
The physical principles of the ocarina remain the same irrespective of material. Consequentially you can practice techniques and experiment on earthenware – which is very cheap to fire – even if your end goal is stoneware, wood or something else entirely.
Secondly, you don’t need a kiln to start making ocarinas. A great deal of the process is done before firing: molding, voicing and rough tuning. These things can all be practiced just as effectively without even having access to a kiln. Developing your work to a point where you’re happy enough to actually want to fire it will take time, so don’t worry about it.
It is possible to practice breath control and tuning just as effectively on bone dry ocarinas as it is on fired ones. Just scrape the clay away carefully and keep checking against the tuner. Once you’re done chuck it in the scrap clay bin for recycling and make another. The only difference is in compensating for shrinkage during firing and the tools used. Oversize it a little and use diamond files/a dremel instead of a scraper on fired work.
The only time when a kiln becomes absolutely essential is in the latter stages when you are compensating for shrinkage to get them in concert pitch. But even then finding one to use, at least in my experience, isn’t that difficult. Ask around art supply stores, craft places, artsy courses, colleges and universities. Just mentioning that you make ocarinas – unusual in the ceramics world – will often convert ‘no’ into ‘yes’.
So practice, don’t worry about firing things in the start and get used to chucking your output in the scrap clay bin for recycling. It’s better than having hundreds of junk ocarinas mounding up to the celling. Just remember to keep track of what you learn in a notebook, what you learn from making something is worth far more than the object itself.
Changing the subject, while it is important to be exposed to the work of other makers, I do not think that it is necessary to collect a huge number of them.
I went at this largely ‘cold turkey’ for a long time, meaning very little exposure to other makers work. During the course of this I ran into most of the possible configurations through chance, experimentation and online research. However I had missed a few things, which suddenly fell into place from studying work at the ocarina festival.
I don’t suggest going cold turkey as I am aware that doing so did make things more difficult for me. Rather the point is one of quality over quantity; get yourself a small number of ocarinas from highly regarded makers and study them.
There is a great deal of value to be found in meeting other players and makers in person, even if you must travel a long way to do so. This allows you to try each other’s ocarinas, breaking down the issue of being able to try before you buy. Also it allows you to share playing techniques and music, and letting you grow friendships. Your friends are essential for your success.
Lastly on the issue of acquiring ocarinas, being a maker opens up the possibility of trading with people. Doing this gives you feedback on your ocarinas and gives you others’ work to try. You may want to create a ‘no talk’, ‘no selling/giving away’ agreement however.
- What do you think is the future of the Ocarina world?
I hope to see the ocarina as a well-known and respected instrument along with everything else. They do have a lovely sound and are most certainly capable, in capable hands. From my own performance in public I can say that it definitely perks people curiosity.
- What have been your most rewarding experiences with the ocarina?
The friends and contacts I have made through playing the instrument. When I first started playing, I quite literally knew nobody in this world beyond my immediate family. Playing the ocarina has allowed me to make friends both within and outside the ocarina community, especially from playing in public at folk clubs and festivals. I’m extremely grateful to everyone.
- Who is your favourite Ocarina maker?
Myself? Generally my favourite ocarina is something I’ve made in the past week or two, so consequently changes all the time. I pay attention to others work, look for things that I like and incorporate them, ending with a mash-up of ideas that leans towards my own idea of perfection. However I am yet to run into any maker whose work exactly matches my desires.
What I’m going for is actually two different things. For playing with the Morris side, what I’m going for is high volume through the entire range. I find many Asian-made ocarinas lacking in volume especially in the low end. When you’re up against the clashing of sticks, large noisy crowds and a diatonic button accordion ‘quiet’ quickly becomes ‘inaudible’.
But for playing outside this setting, I prefer ocarinas with a lower breath requirement and flatter breath response, as they have a more mellow tone and are generally easier to play in tune.
- What is your favourite Ocarina performance?
This falls to everyone I saw playing at the ocarina festival, not knowing the names of all the performers I’m unable to name any singular performance. But seeing all of the ensembles and solo players in person was an inspiring and moving experience.
- Any additional comments/questions/material/shameless plug?
Your friends are immensely valuable on this journey, there is no way I would be where I am without every single person who has openly given their support. They have helped me grow not just in the making of ocarinas, but also in myself. In spite of the hiccups, considering that just a few years ago I knew nobody and had no self-confidence, I feel that I’ve come a long way.
Secondly, you shouldn’t become emotionally attached to your work. What matters is the things that you learn from doing something, not the physical product of that. By putting time into something you are developing ideas in your head, irrespective of how much work you put into something, the next one will always be better.
With learning the lesson of not rushing through the hard way, I’m currently taking the time to really perfect my work. My website is as follows, while you cannot buy anything through it at present, it does contain quite a bit of information about the ocarina.
Thank you so much for taking the time to give us all an interview, Robert! I really enjoyed reading through your experiences and thinking about the advice you have for players and makers alike.
We’ll be seeing more from Robert in the future, with a guest article he has written for The Ocarina Repository!
If you wrote this, or were interviewed in it, and would like it changed or removed, please write to theocarinamuseum@gmail.com.